Ladies in VA, be aware

[ladyariadna.livejournal.com]

What a thing to wake up to:

Apparently, in Virginia, if this passes, You could go to jail or be fined $2,500 for not reporting a miscarriage.

I'm not sure this makes ANY sense at all - wait. No, it doesn't.

I feel sorry for women like me who have an IUD and a completely erratic cycle. Furthermore, I don't know how it would be possible to meet some of these requirements:


place of occurrence
usual residence of patient (mother)
full maiden name of patient
medical record number and social security number of patient
Hispanic origin, if any, and race of patient
age of patient
education of patient
sex of fetus
patient married to father
previous deliveries to patient
single or plural delivery and order of plural delivery
date of delivery
date of last normal menses and physician's estimate of gestation
weight of fetus in grams
month of pregnancy care began (sic)
number of prenatal visits
when fetus died
congenital malformations, if any
events of labor and delivery
medical history for this pregnancy
other history for this pregnancy
obstetric procedures and method of delivery
autopsy
medical certification of cause of spontaneous fetal death
signature of attending physician or medical examiner including title, address and date signed
method of disposal of fetus
signature and address of funeral director or hospital representative
date received by registrar
registrar's signature
registration area and report numbers.



Here's the guy who authored this.

Comments

[snapdragon-666.livejournal.com]

That's absoulutely awful. As if losing a baby isn't hard enough already to deal with. And what about all the women who miscarry who don't know they were pregnant? Or those who didn't know they miscarried at all, because i hear some women don't. What possible reason is there for implementing this kind of thing?

[bluejupiter.livejournal.com]

What I want to know is how do they expect to enforce this?? I mean, are they gonna sift through every woman's tampons and pads and examine it for 'products'??

Fucking nuts.

[sarar.livejournal.com]

seriously...and I don't even have tampons and pads to sift through soooo yeah

[sweetbums.livejournal.com]

It's just a bill. Do you know how many bills get submitted every day? There's no way that one will pass, and if it does it will be quickly overturned.

[krasota.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I'm far more concerned about his attempts to make VA's already draconian anti-gay union laws even *more* evil.

This law isn't likely to get passed. Letters will be written of course and here in VA there's plenty of hubbub about it, but we have some more pressing issues at hand.

[sulingsi.livejournal.com]

i'm curious now... how can you make anti gay union laws more draconian? i assumed that saying that they cannot be recognized is about as far as you can go... is he suggesting we put people in jail if they want one or something?

[krasota.livejournal.com]

Draconian was a poor choice of words. He wants to make them even *more official* by amending the state constitution to include the recently passed (incredibly) restrictive anti-gay-union laws.

This is the state where our delegates tried to figure out a way to officially say they still believed in our sodomy laws and think they're a "good thing" after the Supreme Court decision regarding the Texas case.

I live in a little liberal enclave. Our elected state delegate isn't crazy, but he's got to work with all of 'em.

get the hell out of my home

[caliblackwolf.livejournal.com]

as far as I am concerned these government people need to get out of my home. granted that I live in california however I am appaled that we are losing the rights to control our own bodies. what is going to be next all women that get pregnant are going to be confined to the hospital until the children are born healthy. *rolls her eyes* we need to band together as women and teach these "men" in office that until they can have children we as women need to make the decisions that effect us. granted that it takes two in order to make a child however I feel that women need to make the decisions that effect women.
bless the women that live in VA and may those that are thinking about passing this bill change their minds.

Re: get the hell out of my home

[mistress-yuna.livejournal.com]

I agree 100% This is getting way out of line...where are the female voices?

[ladyariadna.livejournal.com]

Yeah... I'm not sure I like that phrase, "products of conception." It sounds funny somehow.

[sterlingspider.livejournal.com]

sorry, screwed up my html, is fixed below

[sterlingspider.livejournal.com]

Hispanic origin, if any, and race of patient

With the what now?!?!?!? Is "hispanic origin" really a neccessary addendum to that?

Either way they're going to have a hell of a time with this one considering apparently between 60 and 80 percent of all naturally conceived embryos are simply flushed out in women's normal menstrual flows unnoticed (http://www.reason.com/rb/rb122204.shtml).

Products of conception indeed.

[crassy.livejournal.com]

That is what caught my eye when I read it. Wtf does it matter what the ethnicity of the person is?

Lame, lame double lame.

[sterlingspider.livejournal.com]

A friend of mine recently had a miscarriage and has been devistated about it, so the emotional impact of miscarriage is a fresh topic amongst my friends. While she is not of "hispanic origin" the baby was, through the father, (as am I).

All I can think of is that this legislation like a curb stomp with an extra slap in the face for hispanics, just for emphesis.

[crassy.livejournal.com]

I had a miscarriage when I was 20. One of the most trumatic experiences of my life. Not only was I in extreme agony during the actual miscarriage (I was 4 months along), but I was devestated by the loss of a child I wanted. I was in bed for three days afterwards, both from pain and from depression, and it was a full week later before I went in for a D&C to make sure the feotus had been completely expelled.

There was no fucking way in hell I would have walked into a police station, much less answered those stupid questions concerning a private matter.

Who are these men, and why do they feel they have the right to infringe on the rights and bodies of women? I would like to find their mothers and lecture them for not teaching their sons to proper respect for women.

[cjhm.livejournal.com]

Re that article - that's sick! No wonder people in my area have such a dim view of the south-east US.

[caelum.livejournal.com]

What.
The.
Hell.

My cousin recently had a miscarriage. I love her like a big sister and I am outraged that this has even entered the mind of another human being. I'm also glad she (my dear cos) is not a Virginian.

Yeah. An expectant mother is devastated by the loss of the blossoming promise that was growing within her. MAKE HER FILL OUT FORMS AND TALK TO COPS WHO DON'T CARE.

And, if she can't set aside the grief and pull herself up by her bootstraps and do that, SEND HER TO JAIL OR FINE HER.

Just go flush yourself, Mr. Cosgrove. ::snarl::

[caelum.livejournal.com]

And what the hell does Hispanic ethnicity-- and the education level of the woman-- have to do with anything?

Oh, and yes, the first thing a might-have-been mother does upon miscarrying is weigh her dead fetus.

Oooooh, there's so much wrong with this, so much I could say, but I'm too mad. ::stomps off::

[pinkdove80.livejournal.com]

And what the hell does Hispanic ethnicity-- and the education level of the woman-- have to do with anything?

As for the education thing, women with higher education tend to procreate later in life, and older women are more likely to have a miscarriage. My guess is they want to draw some stupid correlation between spending more time in school and being more likely to have a miscarriage.

[blue-cat.livejournal.com]

so leading to future laws discouraging education for women? :P and I am scared that I am only 1/2 joking!

[pinkdove80.livejournal.com]

We must protect the fetus! I don't know about you but I have my veils already picked out.

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

Was that a Taliban reference or The Handmaid's Tale?

I think I'm going to make at T-shirt, My Body, My Party, Host Invitation Only. Honestly, why is it that it is mostly men who try to put their laws and imposition upon women? When was the last time women did that to men? Frankly I don't think anyone who doesn't even have a uterus should have a fucking say about what goes on in mine, without my permission.

[pinkdove80.livejournal.com]

Handmaid's Tale. I first saw it as a little girl and thought they looked really cute in their veils. I always wanted one.

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

Wow, I never saw the movie, I read the book and when I was a young teen and I was really upset and depressed during. I also remember listening to Marcy Playground's song "Sherry Fraiser", which cheered me up cause it sounded like a nice song a guy would write for a girl.

One of the first things I remember Offred saying is that she never looked good in red.

[pinkdove80.livejournal.com]

I tried to read the book because I loved the movie so much but I couldn't really get into it.

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

Meh, it's not for everyone, especially since you saw the movie first. You see, when I read the book first, I usually hate the movie. When I see the movie first however, I can't get the book.

[pinkdove80.livejournal.com]

That's so true. I tried reading Lord of the Rings after and I was so bored. I felt like I already knew anything worth knowing from watching to movie. The only movie I can think of that wasn't true for was Interview with the Vampire. That movie did the book justice. Queen of the Damned made me cry though.

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

One more reason I'm glad I don't live there, but that's same glad everyone have about everything horrible that "at least it's not us". I wish this kind of things never happen anywhere

[weekendwench.livejournal.com]

this is what the good Congressman had to say, and now I am wondering is the journalist lying or the congressman lying about the contents of the proposed law?

Hello:

I am Delegate Cosgrove and I wish to respond to the allegations that have been made by those who have emailed and called my office. The intent of House Bill 1677 is to require the notification of authorities of a delivery of a baby that is dead and the mother has not been attended by a medical professional. This bill was requested by the Chesapeake Police Department in its legislative package due to instances of full term babies who were abandoned shortly after birth. These poor children died horrible deaths and all that the person responsible could be charged with is the improper disposal of a human body.

The requirement for twelve hours comes from the method that a coroner would use to determine if the child had been born alive or dead. After twelve hours, it becomes next to impossible to determine if the child was alive due to decomposition gasses that build up in the body.

My bill in no way intends that a woman who suffers a miscarriage should be charged for not notifying authorities. The bill in no way mentions miscarriages, only deliveries. After discussing the bill again with our legislative services lawyers, I will include language that will define the bill to apply only to those babies that are abandoned as stated above.

I would never inflict this type of emotional torture on a woman who has suffered such a traumatic event as a miscarriage, and I am confident that the General Assembly of Virginia would also not pass such a terrible imposition on a woman.

I hope that you will understand the original intent of this bill. This bill has nothing to do with abortion, contraception and especially miscarriages. If you were alarmed by this bill or by the websites, I am sorry. I hope that this will explain the concept and intent of this bill.

Sincerely,

John A. Cosgrove

[missysedai.livejournal.com]

This is the text of the proposed law (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?051+ful+HB1677+pdf).

On its face, it certainly looks to be what Cosgrove says it is. However, another Virginia law does indeed insist that ALL fetal deaths be reported, regardless of gestational age. In the Commonwealth of Virginia, it is a "fetus" the moment sperm and egg meet (conveniently hurdling those awful scientific definitions).

The detailed information noted above is already reported by physicians if a woman either comes to the office or the ER when she begins to miscarry, Cosgrove seeks to compell women to volunteer this information if they miscarry at home. His letter above is some pretty severe backpedaling.

[gremlingirl.livejournal.com]

I got the same canned response, posted it in my journal here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/gremlingirl/233079.html) and I'll pose the same question here I've posed elsewhere....

He says he's going to change the language. Who is going to hold his feet to the fire? What's to prevent him from inserting another lame loophole clause that will be used in future to harass and degrade women? I suppose all the internet chatter will help, but...

well, as my sister says, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it pick up a phone and call its parents.

Meaning..if he's foiled once, he'll try again.

[missysedai.livejournal.com]

Enough people bitched that he has withdrawn the bill (http://chezmiscarriage.blogs.com/chezmiscarriage/).

[gremlingirl.livejournal.com]

sweet