Yet more online information for DIY* abortions

[fixx.livejournal.com]

tipped off by childunit
Abortion becomes illegal and the first thing that happens is that people use the free information of the internet to disseminate information on how to perform abortions at home.

That is something I predicted several months ago would result from new abortion law such as we have seen recently. I believe I made a post about it to this community at the time and I was surprised what favorable response I receive at the time.

The next part of my prediction was that not long after, this information which currently you can go and read about, would be classified as contraband and that sites offering this information would be shut down though the influence of governmental departments such as the Department of Homeland Security; For as we all know, Abortion is *really* a form of "terrorism" (sarcasm). For this reason I urge you to collect all such information you can find online, back it up to CDrom, and make it available to your friends for the dark times that lay ahead. You must do it now because in the future distributing this information may be considered a crime.

At about the time I last posted to this community about this issue, I had been taking part in a local NARAL effort aimed at improving sex education and keeping abortion safe and legal in my already primarily Democratic state. I was dissatisfied however and felt that someone needed to examine a larger strategy, and so I took that upon myself, and this was the result.

I completely believe that within the next couple years we will see laws stating that if a woman leaves a state where abortion is banned in order to get a safe abortion elsewhere she will face criminal manslaughter or even murder charges upon her return.

If you need evidence supporting this, read about this young man who is serving a LIFE sentence for attempting to "help" his girlfriend to spontaneously abort in Texas after they had been denied an abortion by means of misinformation. Granted I don't think much of this young man's method, but it was not only consensual and apparently at the request of his girlfriend, so why is he in jail and not her. Maybe next time? Similar laws are currently in place in Venezuela where abortion has only recently been banned and mothers and nurses alike are going to jail for trying to make illegal abortions safer there.

There is some minor cause for hope however. It is my impression, though I've not checked this for certain, that the states where Abortion is being first banned in this country are also the Republican voting (RED) states. As you probably know, the majority of Americans of voting age do not currently vote. It is fairly reasonable then to assume that this unpleasantness that will motivate many young voters in those states to register to vote and overturn such laws ASAP

I so rarely post here that I would like to take this opportunity to remind readers that those who wish to make surgical abortion illegal are opposed to all forms of abortion, a definition they extend to IUD's and even the birth control pill. Many pro-choice women have told me they would never have a surgical abortion themselves, but they are for keeping surgical abortion safe and legal. Pro-life women have told me they are opposed to surgical abortion in most or all cases, but they are not opposed to the IUD or the pill. Unless those in these "gray areas" band together and start fighting for reproductive rights now, it is obvious to me where this is actually headed.

Some months ago, prior to the replacement of two supreme court justices, I made these predictions, although phrased somewhat differently. The direct result was that a Philadelphia nurse who I had been involved with, raged at me and then unfriended me and essentially cut me out of her life (of course ending our relationship), so incensed was she that I would dare to suggest abortions could be performed safely without the aid of a licensed doctor. She did not understand what I was really attempting to explain at the time, that it was my intent to persuade others on LJ to locate and disseminate DIY abortion information with the intent of at least making illegal abortions safer and in effect rendering such laws practically nullified.

In the end I suspect that apathy will prevent such a volunteer effort from occurring and many women will have to die from illegal abortions over the next twenty or so years until another supreme court justice can be replaced so that new new laws protect reproductive rights.

--* For those of you unfamiliar with this term, DIY is a popular abbreviation for Do It Yourself.

Comments

[standing-apart.livejournal.com]

yeah.


that's it.

[bandit-art.livejournal.com]

Well stated. It's scary to think of what some women will subject themselves to if/when they have no place to go for a "safe" abortion. The whole mess really frightens me. :(

[jenafreaka.livejournal.com]

What is America coming to?
I hope all this madness will end once Bush is out. No one has the right to tell me what I can or can't do with my own body.

[fixx.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, in a Republican run USA, they do. I've spoken to several Republican women who falsely believed that Roe v Wade was done and settled and that their party would protect them. For the past couple of years most especially I have been telling them they are wrong, and now they are waking up to a terribly scary new country they had not counted on.

Prior to Roe v Wade most women felt exactly as you do, and legal or not they sought abortions. Most succeeded in finding a means to an abortion either domestic or abroad and unfortunately many of them died.

You might want to read this article or even post a link to it in your journal The Case For the Morality of Legal Abortion (http://www.lifeandlibertyforwomen.org/issues/issues_morality_of_legal_abortion.html)

[fixx.livejournal.com]

I just checked your info page. Virginia? I'm sorry to tell you that that's a Red state and as such I think that you might want to plan to ether move or rally for abortion rights because given the restrictive laws already in force there, Virginia is likely to institute such a ban.

[standing-apart.livejournal.com]

well actually, when i lived in virgina, we voted clinton.

[jenafreaka.livejournal.com]

Well, Tim Kaine was just elected into office (as Gov.) not too long ago. Luckily he is liberal and believes in females rights.

[fixx.livejournal.com]

You think you have it rough? I'm still waiting for politicians who believe in the rights of people like me!

[jenafreaka.livejournal.com]

Nah, I don't think I got it rough at all. The way I see it, we are all in the same boat.

[krasota.livejournal.com]

Kaine is a moderately conservative Democrat. He's more like an old school Republican. It's still better than the alternative, but I wouldn't hold your breath on getting any breaks with him.

[jenafreaka.livejournal.com]

Yeah well, what can you expect out of Virginia?

[krasota.livejournal.com]

Charlottesville and NoVA should secede. Only problem with that is we'd have to adopt NoVA's sprawl. ;)

I live in a rather liberal enclave of Virginia. It's easy to forget what lies outside of city limits.

[aplaceinthestar.livejournal.com]

Only parts of NoVa vote democratic/liberal. My county (PWC) is strongly Republican. But maybe we can take Arlington/Alexandria/Fairfax, those tend to be more liberal.

Luckily, where I live now in Virginia is far more liberal -- I live in a VERY urban, high-minority area. I like it better here.

[autumn-sylver.livejournal.com]

The sad thing is though, that if these laws do get crazier as you're predicting (and I have no doubt that they will), then people who give information to other people about DIY abortions will probably go to jail as well.

[fixx.livejournal.com]

Which is why I want to see the information distributed first! It is against the law to prosecute anyone for something that was not illegal at the time they committed the act. the way I see it, if everyone has a copy, nobody needs to give it to anyone else, for a while anyway.

[zinnea.livejournal.com]

A very important step you can take to counteract the restriction of freedoms is to make sure that you are both a registered voter in your locality and someone who actually casts his or her vote.

Where I live (Seattle, Washington, in the USA) we have had some very, very serious issues settled by literally a handful of votes.

If you are unable to vote for some reason (underage, not a citizen where you live, etc.) there's still a lot you can do, too, of course, but if you can vote, you should. Don't let your rights be taken away from you without a fight.

[fixx.livejournal.com]

That's a very good point and well timed as well. Every time there's a presidential election I always hear from people who say, "I moved last year and I forgot to register in my district" or, I forgot to vote in the last election and my voter registration lapsed".

I'd like to suggest that those who take a more active role in this community than I do, take the initiative to post reminders regularly to get the fairly huge menstrualhut readership to REGISTER TO VOTE! And also prompt readers to post reminders in their journals.

It is also important to point out that Live Journal has many users who are currently below voting age but will not be by the next presidential election. From what I just read, they can register in preparation for being of an age to vote.

I've voted in every election since I was eighteen and always voted in the same district even if I was temporarily relocated to a different state so I never had to re-register. As a result I never really had the answers when it came to even telling my friends how to register to vote.

I just googled for the answer and so I'm going to be posting the following voter registration link in my LJ user info page so my readers don't have an excuse to go another year without voting.

http://www.rockthevote.org/

This website does not actually register you online but through a series of menus, determines your information and generates a ready to mail form that you can print on your printer so you can mail it to the correct department for your district. If you are going to adviser others to use it, it would be advisable to put it through its paces as I just did. Maybe you can find an even better website?

I just looked at your LJ user info page. I may have to friend you. Like myself, you are not afraid to stand up for your political beliefs publicly such as in your info page.

[sicilianhitlist.livejournal.com]

Making these abortions safe will not render these laws nullified. If the states really get so strict about it that they ban abortion directions over the internet, then I'm pretty sure they could take other measures -- like implementing random pregnancy testing in addition to random drug testing -- in some places of work.

My personal opinion is that the situation should not arise itself in the first place that a DIY abortion needs to be performed. If one is concerned about a broken condemn, or a rape, there is a week before the pregnancy can be confirmed, during which time a woman may still take pills to prevent a growing fetus.

There's a certain knowledge and responsibilty that should come with vaginal sex: even with birth control, you can get pregnant.

[fixx.livejournal.com]

Making these abortions safe will not render these laws nullified.

One point I try to make is that after Roe, the number of abortions did not actually rise, and that is because the law against abortion was completely ineffective. Legalizing abortion only served to greatly reduce the number of deaths from abortion.

This is a very important point when trying to convince Pro-Lifers an abortion ban won't save any lives, but rather take more lives. My effort is not simply to reduce the number of lives it will take, but to also drive home the message that more could be done to reduce the number of abortions by improved safe sex education than teaching abstinence and outlawing abortion which seems to be the Conservative notion.

like implementing random pregnancy testing in addition to random drug testing -- in some places of work.

I hear they did that in Romania. Called them "fertility police".

My personal opinion is that the situation should not arise itself in the first place that a DIY abortion needs to be performed. If one is concerned about a broken condemn, or a rape, there is a week before the pregnancy can be confirmed, during which time a woman may still take pills to prevent a growing fetus.

You are joking right? Using pills in that way is does not "prevent" a growing fetus as you put it. That method constitutes an abortion but simply not a "surgical abortion". That is also on the list of forms of abortions which the conservatives with to outlaw. The most extreme conservatives wish to outlaw the birth control pill itself and the IUD as both prevent implantation and therefore constitute the objectionable abortion.

There's a certain knowledge and responsibility that should come with vaginal sex: even with birth control, you can get pregnant.

As someone who likes "69" at least as much as vaginal sex I have to agree, people ought to be more creative. You'd think that if people truly equated the act of penetrative vaginal sex with procreation they would not do it... but you know we are not wired to think clearly when it comes to sexual attraction.

There is only *ONE* solution and that is to convince Pro Lifers that an abortion ban will not reduce abortions at all. In fact with my approach the convenience and potentially lower cost might even increase the number of abortions although because not everyone will have equal access to them, more women will die and more children will be orphaned by those women who already had children and did not want more of them.

We must convince the "swing voters" in this case the pro lifers who feel that abortion is wrong but a policy that results in the death or incarceration of women seeking abortion is still worse.

The number of voters in this gray area is larger than you think. It includes women such as yourself who think the use of the pill to induce an abortion is acceptable. Welcome to the Pro-Choice movement.

[sicilianhitlist.livejournal.com]

One point I try to make is that after Roe, the number of abortions did not actually rise, and that is because the law against abortion was completely ineffective. Legalizing abortion only served to greatly reduce the number of deaths from abortion.

I'd like to see some statistics on that, please. I do find it hard to believe, but I'm asking moreso out of curiosity (and I'm guessing you might have a good site on hand).

My effort is not simply to reduce the number of lives it will take, but to also drive home the message that more could be done to reduce the number of abortions by improved safe sex education than teaching abstinence and outlawing abortion which seems to be the Conservative notion.

Yeah, more emphasis should *definetly* be made on safe sex, not just for pregnancy reasons. Still, I believe that people should take responsibilty for the children they create instead of killing them a couple of months in.

You are joking right? Using pills in that way is does not "prevent" a growing fetus as you put it. That method constitutes an abortion but simply not a "surgical abortion".

Kind of. I said to prevent the fetus from growing because technically, it's not illegal abortion yet, and I wasn't sure whether or not there are drug abortions that go past the first couple of weeks, so I didn't want to say that.

In fact with my approach the convenience and potentially lower cost might even increase the number of abortions

I still believe the focus should be on preventing the pregnancy in the first place, not to make getting rid of the fetus convienent.

I'd like to see an emphasis placed on preventing children in the first place, and more emphasis placed on bettering the adoption system. Why should we allow abortion to remain the most convienent option?

[fixx.livejournal.com]

One point I try to make is that after Roe, the number of abortions did not actually rise, and that is because the law against abortion was completely ineffective. Legalizing abortion only served to greatly reduce the number of deaths from abortion.

I'd like to see some statistics on that, please. I do find it hard to believe, but I'm asking more so out of curiosity (and I'm guessing you might have a good site on hand).

Two in fact. Copied from my info page, the second link is MUCH more detailed, the first one is something you could read before an elementary school class and maybe not get fired:
If you are still not sure if Abortion should remain legal, read this (http://www.coolnurse.com/abortion_legal.htm) or this The Case For the Morality of Legal Abortion (http://www.lifeandlibertyforwomen.org/issues/issues_morality_of_legal_abortion.html)

Both links make an important point. Abortion is not a new invention of our modern age, but *SAFE* abortion is.

Yeah, more emphasis should *definitely* be made on safe sex, not just for pregnancy reasons. Still, I believe that people should take responsibility for the children they create instead of killing them a couple of months in.

There are a lot of things people ought to do, like take better care of themselves, not yell at their kids, not drink and drive. Unfortunately as I said before anyone who has experience being HUMAN knows that the nature of sexual attraction and desire has *nothing* to do with "what we ought to do".

In fact with my approach the convenience and potentially lower cost might even increase the number of abortions

I still believe the focus should be on preventing the pregnancy in the first place, not to make getting rid of the fetus convenient.

I'd like to see an emphasis placed on preventing children in the first place, and more emphasis placed on bettering the adoption system. Why should we allow abortion to remain the most convenient option?

My strategy isn't about what is fair or right. To my way of thinking, outlawing abortion is wrong in that it will cause wrongful and unwarranted deaths of innocent people, in most cases the poor who already have children and as I said before, create orphans by killing their mother.

No, my strategy of making the means of an array of abortions cheap and available has a lot more to with a new argument, that being: If the law cannot be reasonably enforced, why even try?

I've already explained the law will not save the unborn but only kill the living, a concept which has been known since 1973, but which conservatives seem too dense to appreciate. They might be able to understand, given the high costs of medical care in this country, that once you push abortion underground, essentially deregulating it, you lose a LOT of things:

Governmentally, you lose the ability to:
1) TAX those abortion clinics
2) Enforce counseling of those seeking abortion.
3) Control what is done with the discarded embryos!

Individually, although less legally , you lose the ability to:
4) Harass women as they enter and leave abortion clinics (currently legally protected)
5) Murder doctors who perform abortions
6) Torch the homes and businesses of practitioners of abortion

Think about that! First they outlaw stem cell research because some stem cells might actually come from discarded embryos, and then they ensure that there will be millions of untraceable discarded embryos!

And if the end result of all of this is that MORE women get the abortions than would have under legalized abortion, then the conservatives lose. That doesn't really mean *we* actually win, at least not immediately, but such a realization might make the prohibition of abortion a short-lived disaster. It would be a lot nicer if those fighting to criminalize abortion could just stop and think and realize that what they are doing is both cruel and completely unworkable.

[dindin.livejournal.com]

I have to say that I strongly disagree with the dissemination of this information. I understand the thought process behind it, but promoting do-it-yourself medical procedures is irresponsible at best and dangerous at worst. And coming from a male, sorry, but I find the information doubly offensive.

I can certainly understand why someone would disagree with your actions and find them so inflammatory as to cut you out of their lives, although I don't see what that information has to do with this post.

If you want to hlep women, encourage them to get out and vote. Encourage them to become informed about their local, city, state and federal representatives. Encourage them to give generously to Planned Parenthood and NARAL. Encourage them to use their voices and their power as citizens of this country, where less than half the population actually votes.

There is no such thing as a safe do-it-yourself-abortion.

I find this post to be in effect a call to run and hide and throw the covers over our heads as women, rather than becoming outraged over what's happening in states across the country, what's been happening as a gradual erosion of our right to a legal abortion.

I can't believe more women aren't outraged at this post.

[fixx.livejournal.com]

And coming from a male, sorry, but I find the information doubly offensive.

The information came from a male? Are you sure?? I'll have to go back to that link and have a look, but I'm pretty sure you are wrong about that! --- I just checked and it appears that childunit and blogspot's "Molly" are **both** female, or at least they claim to be. Where do you get these ideas???

It is my opinion the reason you find what *I* say doubly offensive has nothing to do with my gender, but rather with my person. I doubt I will be the only one to find your gender-based objection doubly offensive.

I can certainly understand why someone would disagree with your actions and find them so inflammatory as to cut you out of their lives

Be honest. You have a personal problem with *me*, not that I even know what it is about as you never told me.

although I don't see what that information has to do with this post

I posted that to indicate that I have made personal sacrifices. I'm sorry but not particularly surprised that *you* could not understand that. However I'm sure most other people did.

If you want to hlep women, encourage them to get out and vote

Look at the statistics? (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763629.html) Only about half of eligible voters in this country actually vote for presidents and only a third vote for representatives.

You appear to wish to believe that I am poorly informed. This article (http://usinfo.state.gov/dhr/Archive/2004/Apr/14-284075.html), explains that what percentages of single and married women voted. You may be forced to conclude as I have done, that while headway may still be made by persuading more women to register and vote, more can by done by persuading those who are opposed to abortion that criminalizing abortion does less to actually stop it than prevention; the actual basis of my campaign. The very dissemination you object to is both the proof and the means without which I believe this campaign simply won't fly, at least not without a whole lot more funding.

Encourage them to give generously to Planned Parenthood and NARAL

You're preaching to the choir. I have two NARAL links in my info page. I refer to NARAL frequently in my public and friends locked posts. I'm already doing all I can now..

Naral is doing an remarkable job of making women aware of the issues and I think I'm doing all I can to make more women aware of NARAL. If my campaign only serves to demoralize those who are fighting to make abortion illegal I will consider it a success.

There is no such thing as a safe do-it-yourself-abortion

I never said there was! Did you actually read what I wrote or did you trust the synopsis given you by a friend? Perhaps you need to do a "word search" for the word safe?

Here are two irrefutable benefits to disseminating this information:
1) It decreases the chances that illegal abortions will result in death when performed by well meaning desperate individuals forced into it by unjust laws
2) It increases the chances that even the most desperate women will be able to determine when a less well-meaning illegal abortion practitioner is not properly equipped to perform one with even a reasonable degree of safety.

Since these benefits are to my mind, irrefutable, I reject your belief that my actions are irresponsible.

I can't believe more women aren't outraged at this post.

I agree! Isn't it amazing that with over TWO THOUSAND MEMBERS in this community that *you* are the only one to voice a (significant) objection to my post? Could it be that you've leapt to the wrong conclusion? (again).

As I said, you have a PERSONAL problem with me. I can't believe more menstrualhut readers are not outraged at your selfishness for opportunistically casting a blow on an issue you know I'm already sensitive about.

Otherwise intelligent men often refuse to even take a stand, claiming that Abortion Rights are none of their concern! You'd think that a man who has worked as hard as I have, who has not only donated funds to NARAL, but has attended both NARAL and BOE meetings to campaign for better sex ed, would receive better treatment than I have today.

[dindin.livejournal.com]

Whoa. You've got some serious mental health issues, fixx if you're so self centered as to believe this has the slightest thing to do with you as a person. I've never met you in person, I don't know you. For the record you were briefly on my friends list and yes, I removed you. That hasn't got the slightest thing to do with my issues surrounding this post.

But I'm not about to argue with someone that deranged. I'll simply let my previous comment stand and end it.